Wasn't there a rollout of boosters around August/September 2021? Would it be fair to assume that some people had damage or autoimmunity from the first round and were more susceptible by the end of summer?
Ah, maybe it did precede the booster rollout. More susceptible to *both* COVID and the toxicity of future injections. We've seen studies showing that the shots inhibit both memory and killer cells; cause endothelial and cardiac disease; as well as trigger autoimmunity and aggressive cancer.
Elsewhere, Steve argued that excess deaths in the US don't coincide with the vaccination curve because the vaccine only kills elderly people, so the deaths occurred December through February (that used to be on page 43 of his 150,000 vaccine deaths document, I haven't checked to see if he changed that).
Here, he's arguing that deaths don't line up with the vaccinations curve because the vaccine takes 5 months to kill you. So that's hilarious, he's double counting and saying that both the winter alpha covid deaths and the summer delta deaths were caused by the same round of vaccinations.
Steve's either a grifter, an attention seeker, or simply a crazy person.
What's your game, though?
I just heard of you and saw your old paper on ResearchGate. You're a PhD with a job at a university and you actually think there were 250,000 covid vaccine deaths in the US? Do you still believe that?
This comment evinces a mind trained to think everyone is working at some kind of "game" and that serious thinkers don't correct themselves when they discover they were wrong in the past. This is "thinking as competitive sport" - not "reflection for purposes of discerning the truth." The comment seems to come from someone capable of thinking, but who has ended up unmoored from the inconveniences and responsibilities imposed by ethics and morals.
Dr. Pantazatos is on record saying he didn't want to believe what he uncovered, but that the data lead him to his conclusions. I believe he felt that he had to speak out. This is strong evidence of a principled man when we consider that the consequences of speaking out against the COVID zeitgeist have always been detrimental to one's work, relationships and career. He is not playing a "game."
Many people are playing a game to distort the truth for attention. Mostly because it's highly profitable. Top substack anti-vaxxers like Kirsch or Berenson make a million dollars a year doing this.
250,000 US vaccine deaths is highly inconsistent with basic facts about reality, like excess death counts in multiple states and countries. See, for instance:
If you don't do a bit of fact checking against multiple lines of reasoning before making such a strong claim, you're either very bad at reasoning or playing a motivated game.
That is not to say that covid vaccines are 100% safe. There are some very real concerns about them causing things like dysautonomia:
1. The number of US excess deaths between February and August, 2021 extracted from the first graph the author shows (CDC excess deaths across, see https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm ) are consistent with the estimated vaccine associated deaths from my October 2021 preprint (~168K excess deaths). Any differences in the distribution of those deaths across time with my preprint may be due to the limitations of the dataset which are noted in the figures caption: “Number of deaths reported on this page are the total number of deaths received and coded as of the date of analysis and do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period. Data are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.”
2. The percent estimated excess deaths are still positive (they hover between 5-10% between March and early August) and is consistent with fact that vaccine mortality risk is much lower in the younger age groups (who were being vaccinated during those times). Moreover, while death from COVID infection has a stereotypical time delay, the same cannot be said about death caused by the vaccine since it can occur through various mechanisms with different time frames. Hence, one would not expect to see a “spike” in mortality following a “spike” in vaccinations. This was the main point of this post here.
3. The link you reference includes additional graphs by https://twitter.com/hmatejx/status/1442457789721415680?s=20 . I have not analyzed Our World in Data for other countries but I will state that many or even most of those graphs do not plot excess deaths (grey) that occur *after* the peak of the vaccination dosages (blue line), and so the most important information appears to be missing from those graphs!
If I’m missing something or made an error in these comments, please let me know! Thanks again for your comment and engagement.
It's been a while since I first commented here, so this discussion isn't that fresh in my memory. Can we clarify what you are arguing?
You are saying there were 168,000 vaccine induced deaths in the US in 2021? Over what range of months?
It looks like your original paper said that vaccines were net harmful between 0 and 5 weeks after vaccination and also > 24 weeks post vaccination?
Are you arguing that this rate of excess deaths should be seen in every country? Including in countries with almost no covid cases? In that case, I think we can easily just look through the data from countries like Australia to show that your rate of excess deaths is too high.
Or are you arguing, perhaps, for some kind of interaction between covid and the vaccines, such that vaccination increases covid death rates? I believe we can still disprove your hypothesis using only high Covid countries, but it gets more complicated when you can't just look at the low Covid control group.
Wasn't there a rollout of boosters around August/September 2021? Would it be fair to assume that some people had damage or autoimmunity from the first round and were more susceptible by the end of summer?
The 1st booster rollout was right after the August/September COVID wave. It was approved for ages >65 and high-risk >18 on September 22nd, and for everyone >18 in late October, if I remember correctl. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-authorizes-booster-dose-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-certain-populations. Do you mean more susceptible to COVID or to additional boosters?
Ah, maybe it did precede the booster rollout. More susceptible to *both* COVID and the toxicity of future injections. We've seen studies showing that the shots inhibit both memory and killer cells; cause endothelial and cardiac disease; as well as trigger autoimmunity and aggressive cancer.
Might that second spike align with flu shots while many people were completing their primary series?
Elsewhere, Steve argued that excess deaths in the US don't coincide with the vaccination curve because the vaccine only kills elderly people, so the deaths occurred December through February (that used to be on page 43 of his 150,000 vaccine deaths document, I haven't checked to see if he changed that).
Here, he's arguing that deaths don't line up with the vaccinations curve because the vaccine takes 5 months to kill you. So that's hilarious, he's double counting and saying that both the winter alpha covid deaths and the summer delta deaths were caused by the same round of vaccinations.
Steve's either a grifter, an attention seeker, or simply a crazy person.
What's your game, though?
I just heard of you and saw your old paper on ResearchGate. You're a PhD with a job at a university and you actually think there were 250,000 covid vaccine deaths in the US? Do you still believe that?
This comment evinces a mind trained to think everyone is working at some kind of "game" and that serious thinkers don't correct themselves when they discover they were wrong in the past. This is "thinking as competitive sport" - not "reflection for purposes of discerning the truth." The comment seems to come from someone capable of thinking, but who has ended up unmoored from the inconveniences and responsibilities imposed by ethics and morals.
Dr. Pantazatos is on record saying he didn't want to believe what he uncovered, but that the data lead him to his conclusions. I believe he felt that he had to speak out. This is strong evidence of a principled man when we consider that the consequences of speaking out against the COVID zeitgeist have always been detrimental to one's work, relationships and career. He is not playing a "game."
Many people are playing a game to distort the truth for attention. Mostly because it's highly profitable. Top substack anti-vaxxers like Kirsch or Berenson make a million dollars a year doing this.
250,000 US vaccine deaths is highly inconsistent with basic facts about reality, like excess death counts in multiple states and countries. See, for instance:
https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/debunking-steve-kirschs-latest-claims-97e1c40f5d74
If you don't do a bit of fact checking against multiple lines of reasoning before making such a strong claim, you're either very bad at reasoning or playing a motivated game.
That is not to say that covid vaccines are 100% safe. There are some very real concerns about them causing things like dysautonomia:
https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/new-study-measures-the-frequency-of-covid-vaccine-injuries-63232b3ce7b2
When faced with real evidence like that, I do my best to understand it and integrate it into a balanced picture of risks and rewards from vaccines.
When faced with hopelessly bad arguments like those from Kirsch or Pantazatos, I laugh.
It sounds like you have trouble telling the difference.
Thanks for sharing the link (https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/debunking-steve-kirschs-latest-claims-97e1c40f5d74) . I just had a chance to read it through. I have several preliminary comments:
1. The number of US excess deaths between February and August, 2021 extracted from the first graph the author shows (CDC excess deaths across, see https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm ) are consistent with the estimated vaccine associated deaths from my October 2021 preprint (~168K excess deaths). Any differences in the distribution of those deaths across time with my preprint may be due to the limitations of the dataset which are noted in the figures caption: “Number of deaths reported on this page are the total number of deaths received and coded as of the date of analysis and do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period. Data are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.”
2. The percent estimated excess deaths are still positive (they hover between 5-10% between March and early August) and is consistent with fact that vaccine mortality risk is much lower in the younger age groups (who were being vaccinated during those times). Moreover, while death from COVID infection has a stereotypical time delay, the same cannot be said about death caused by the vaccine since it can occur through various mechanisms with different time frames. Hence, one would not expect to see a “spike” in mortality following a “spike” in vaccinations. This was the main point of this post here.
3. The link you reference includes additional graphs by https://twitter.com/hmatejx/status/1442457789721415680?s=20 . I have not analyzed Our World in Data for other countries but I will state that many or even most of those graphs do not plot excess deaths (grey) that occur *after* the peak of the vaccination dosages (blue line), and so the most important information appears to be missing from those graphs!
If I’m missing something or made an error in these comments, please let me know! Thanks again for your comment and engagement.
It's been a while since I first commented here, so this discussion isn't that fresh in my memory. Can we clarify what you are arguing?
You are saying there were 168,000 vaccine induced deaths in the US in 2021? Over what range of months?
It looks like your original paper said that vaccines were net harmful between 0 and 5 weeks after vaccination and also > 24 weeks post vaccination?
Are you arguing that this rate of excess deaths should be seen in every country? Including in countries with almost no covid cases? In that case, I think we can easily just look through the data from countries like Australia to show that your rate of excess deaths is too high.
Or are you arguing, perhaps, for some kind of interaction between covid and the vaccines, such that vaccination increases covid death rates? I believe we can still disprove your hypothesis using only high Covid countries, but it gets more complicated when you can't just look at the low Covid control group.